The Legal Side of Self Storage with Scott Zucker

Andrew (00:00)

So I just started following this guy on social.

Have you heard of this guy, Derek Cahill? It’s he does

Chris (00:08)

Ooh,

who is that?

Andrew (00:11)

I think it I think his segments are called Fuck This House.

Chris (00:14)

Yeah, I know Derek. He reminds me of you because he looks like you. I think I’ve sent you some of his stuff before, haven’t I? He’s a stand up comedian.

Andrew (00:20)

Have you?

I had no idea he was a stand up comedian, but he’s pretty funny, especially when he’s working

Chris (00:25)

Yeah.

Andrew (00:25)

on his house.

Chris (00:26)

Yeah. Yeah. He reminds me of you a lot. ‘Cause I think you guys

Andrew (00:30)

All right.

Chris (00:30)

have like same facial features and

Andrew (00:34)

Alright, I don’t know.

Chris (00:35)

and you’re both DIYers.

I mean he’s funnier than you are, but

Andrew (00:38)

Good looking DI wires.

Chris (00:43)

But yeah, he’s great.

Andrew (00:44)

Yeah, he’s really funny. I just started following him.

Chris (00:47)

Yeah. He’s he’s I think it’s nationwide tour this this summer and fall. He’ll be in Philly. Come on down.

Andrew (00:54)

Hey. Yeah, he just just popped up in the algo. So,

Chris (00:58)

Mm.

Andrew (01:00)

No? Is that weird? Cringe? He’s cringing over there. God damn it.

Chris (01:02)

No. No.

Brian (01:05)

Today’s guest is one of the most recognizable legal minds in self storage. Scott Zucker is a founding partner of the Atlanta law firm Weissman Zucker, Euster and Katz, and has been practicing law since nineteen eighty seven. For decades he has represented self storage owners and operators across the country on everything from lien sales and rental agreements to development, employment issues, tenant claims, and risk management.

He serves as legal counsel to numerous state self storage associations, has been a frequent speaker at national industry conferences, and is a partner in the self storage legal network, providing legal guidance to operators nationwide.

Scott is also the author of Legal Topics and Self Storage, widely regarded as one of the industry’s foundational legal reference guides, and has written extensively for Inside Self Storage, SSA magazine, Mini Storage Messenger, and numerous other industry publications.

Chris (01:55)

My wife calls her debit card her Debbie just to fuck with me.

Brian (02:04)

Never heard that.

Chris (02:06)

Because she’s only dro I mean, she’s dropping one letter. Like w this isn’t even there’s no time savings.

Brian (02:12)

Right. Right, right.

Chris (02:15)

She’s just

Andrew (02:15)

Debbie and I are going to lunch.

Chris (02:17)

Yeah.

Brian (02:18)

Yep, me and my friend Debbie.

Debbie’s picking up the tab.

Chris (02:23)

I gotta go use my Debbie. What does that mean? Have fun with Debbie, I’ll be here on the couch.

I don’t know how I got to that, I’m sorry. No going back though.

Andrew (02:35)

So good. That was a great open.

Brian (02:38)

Hey Scott, welcome to No Vacancy.

Chris (02:42)

The attorney’s here, now we can really talk about this. Scott. Excellent.

Scott Zucker (02:45)

Turning client privilege.

Brian (02:46)

Ice game.

Chris (02:47)

Thank you for joining us, sir. We’re getting right into it. When you sneeze

Brian (02:52)

Ha ha

Chris (02:53)

after a certain number of sneezes, let’s say you’re having a tough day, do you ever receive the tone when when someone has to go out of their way for like the third or fourth, God bless you?

Scott Zucker (03:03)

А резерв комен.

Chris (03:05)

here we go.

Scott Zucker (03:10)

I’m not sure who I’m representing in that question.

Chris (03:14)

Yourself.

Scott Zucker (03:15)

if if I if I’m the sneeze or the sneezee?

Chris (03:18)

Yes.

Brian (03:19)

Neas

Chris (03:20)

the sneeze or do you ever do

Scott Zucker (03:21)

If I’m the sneeze or

Chris (03:23)

you ever experience a tone from someone who feels like they’re obligated to give you the God bless you, even though you’ve never re asked for it? Correct.

Scott Zucker (03:29)

Y you you mean like my children? Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Of the answer’s yes.

Chris (03:35)

I got one yes from an attorney immediately. This is gonna be a hell of a podcast. Hey Scott, thanks for joining us.

Scott Zucker (03:45)

I don’t know how you guys are doing this in the middle of a World Cup match. Like wha w who’s watching TV and talking to me at the same time? And that match is going on in Atlanta and I passed on tickets because of you guys. How about that?

Brian (04:00)

Well I’m sorry about it

Chris (04:01)

Well, we

Andrew (04:01)

Well we appreciate it.

Chris (04:01)

all have regrets every day.

Who is playing in Atlanta right now?

Scott Zucker (04:09)

It’s Czechoslovakia and somebody. I don’t I I’ve

Brian (04:12)

South Africa.

Scott Zucker (04:14)

I’m I I’m working. I’m working for a living. Anyway, this is very cool you guys ca how this is fun. You guys how many of these have you done now?

Andrew (04:24)

This will be

Our fourteenth or fifteenth recorded, but we have twelve out currently. Yeah.

Chris (04:35)

Yeah. We’re having fun.

Scott Zucker (04:36)

Very very cool.

Brian (04:38)

Yeah, just about

Andrew (04:38)

Yeah.

Brian (04:39)

a we this we

Chris (04:39)

Thank you.

Scott Zucker (04:40)

Who is the

who is the instigator behind this?

Chris (04:43)

Andrew.

Brian (04:44)

Definitely.

Andrew (04:44)

All right.

I yeah, all right.

Scott Zucker (04:48)

Yeah.

Brian (04:49)

Wear

it proudly. You’re say you’re welcome.

Chris (04:50)

Ha ha ha.

Scott, thank

Brian (04:55)

Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun.

We’ve talked to some really interesting people and this i we I think June of last year was our first one. So we’ve been on about a once a month cadence and here we are, whole year in, having a good time.

Scott Zucker (05:08)

Honored.

Chris (05:10)

It’s our pleasure to have you. Thanks for making the time, Scott. so we want to get right into it. I I was listening to your TED talk from a number of years ago, and you mentioned your folks, and you gave a brief story that I’d like you to dive a little more into about how they met and their origin story. And I really want to know how your dad Stanley, how smooth of a cat is that guy for getting your mom to marry him within

Scott Zucker (05:38)

Te ten days. Ten days. Yeah.

Chris (05:39)

Two weeks time. How did that happen?

Scott Zucker (05:42)

Well, I d I I I love to tell this story and and if if you’re really intrigued by that story, you will love my novel. So you know, I’ve written three novels. So this last novel that’s called Battle for Life was my my dad’s I mean it’s inspired on my d it’s not it’s not non fiction, it’s it’s fiction, but it’s based upon my dad’s life and I and I include that this story

Chris (06:08)

Hm.

Scott Zucker (06:08)

Subtly in in the novel, because I love the story. So my dad had just gotten discharged from after World War II after being sent to recover after this kamikaze attack in the Pacific. He he literally said he had shell shock. But he but he came back to stay with his parents in Brooklyn in the apartment building in Brooklyn.

after the war and my mother was visiting her grandparents who lived in the same apartment building in Brooklyn and he literally met her on the stairwell and ten days later they were married. And he actually had a date scheduled for the date they got married. which I think w just they’re talking about a smooth move. I mean he th the guy had a backup plan. I

Chris (06:56)

Yeah, backup plan for

mom.

Scott Zucker (06:58)

I I

gotta admire. And they and they were married until my mom passed. They were married forty four years. so it’s a love story and it’s so nice of you to to to bring that up. Now you’re getting me all emotional for this podcast. Jeeze.

Chris (07:14)

Yeah,

that’s what we try

Andrew (07:15)

Nailed it, Chris.

Chris (07:16)

to do. Thank you. so

Scott Zucker (07:19)

You wanna talk about my kids and my grandchildren now? Okay.

Chris (07:21)

No, I I we’ll get to that if things slow a little. But

Brian (07:22)

Sure.

Chris (07:26)

so speaking of emotions, and you got to me a little bit too, during that TED talk, because you were talking about your folks and that they left you too soon. so we have a little bit of that in common. and just the idea that you came to talk about in the Ted Talk, the legacy writing about

You know, it made me think of my mom and my kids are getting older now and they didn’t meet their grandmother and how I wish, you know, that that had happened and I’ve got two ten year old girls and I really would just like my mom to see how much her granddaughters are gonna start battling my wife, which would be a hoot for her you know, that the hormones are raging, and they’re only ten years old. So, you know, that really rang true to me, to

To be able to talk to the next generation, even if you’re not there. So

Scott Zucker (08:24)

It and it’s

your responsibility to make sure your girls know about your mom. I I think everyone’s life has a story and a and a value. I mean

Life’s short. I mean, we all know people that aren’t here anymore that, you know, sometimes you go to their funerals and you learn about things about their life that you didn’t know while they were alive and it’s like so sad to hear it at the end. so I mean i you know, for you to be able to make sure you share those stories with your kids so they know who their grandmother was. And it’s your job to make sure they know your stories so one day your great great great grandchildren

will know who you were. I ’cause I think they w may one day ask, like, you know, I mean, for all of us, I mean, do we really know the stories of our great great grandparents? I mean, wouldn’t it be amazing to find a writing from them or a video these days or something? I mean, that that would that would just blow your mind.

Chris (09:22)

It would. It it absolutely would. But I was struck by the feeling of an overwhelming responsibility to do this. And then how emotional that would be to put some of that on paper. how you’ve I believe you’ve done that, right? And and how

Scott Zucker (09:41)

I have, I have, yeah.

Chris (09:43)

emotional is that or does that continue to be or was that at the time?

Scott Zucker (09:48)

It continues to be. I I mean I I write my topics are are based upon the number of decades. So I started with forty things about turning forty and fifty things about turning fifty, sixty things about turning sixty and and and and onward and onward. so I do I do write them and continue to write them and and find emotion in that writing as you should, because these are emotional topics.

I I i i if you caught from what I said in the TED talk, but there are things I talk about in terms of of issues that all of us you would think that our kids or or friends or family would would be in interested in knowing, our perspective on issues like work and and integrity and

Relationship with God, if any. I mean just i you know, just lay it out there, and don’t feel as if it’s selfish or egotistic to talk about because one day they’re going to be curious and you’ll have given them a gift by giving an answer.

Chris (10:59)

Yeah. It’s beautiful. I mean, it’s just beautiful and I hope at some point we get to see that in a book. I’m sure it’s very private, but you know, maybe you could curb that a little bit and release it to the masses like the other three n fiction books.

Scott Zucker (11:14)

Thank you.

Chris (11:16)

But it was lovely. So thank you for that. And you got me all misty eyed, appreciate it.

Scott Zucker (11:20)

Thanks for watching the TED Talk. It was it was a very meaningful

and pivotal experience to participate in a TED program. you know, it’ll i the people that get to do it are you are very fortunate and hopefully they they have an impact on the people that listen to it.

Chris (11:37)

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the TED Talk, you were such a natural up there and you do so many conferences. You’re all over the country with the self storage industry, supporting the self storage industry, advocating for the self storage industry. How long have you been doing these conferences and even before that, what was your what was your call? Was there a call to the self storage industry? How did you

Start there and then when did you start getting on stage?

Scott Zucker (12:09)

Well, th there was a call to the self storage industry. It was literally a and I tell this story recently I was very fortunate that the mini storage messenger did a full article on my story.

they called it the rule of law. Just g just kick ass. They really did a great job. but I you know I started out as a as a construction development lawyer. This goes back to 1987, so I’ve been practicing almost 40 years. that was developing self-storage, and we successfully worked through the development and construction of the of the project, and the operator turned to me and literally said, Are there any rules that apply to operating a self-storage facility?

And I said, I have no idea. So I’m gonna go look it up. And lo and behold, there was a statute that dealt with self-storage operation for the state of Georgia, and and was amazed by it and wrote about it. it got published in the Messenger magazine back in 1989.

the National Association saw the article, called me up and said, Would you like to speak at a conference? And it just steamrolled and you know the the story continues. But it it goes with my whole whole philosophy from a from a law marketing service perspective of go out, get seen out, get asked out.

which was to put myself out there in writing and speaking and then have people hear me or or read it and go, Well, this guy knows my industry or cares about my industry, I might call him to for help and that sort of snowballed into becoming a self storage legal guru

Andrew (14:02)

Mm.

Scott Zucker (14:04)

as some as some might say.

by the way, that will be on my tombstone. You’ll just see self storage

Andrew (14:09)

Yeah.

Scott Zucker (14:10)

lawyer. Here lies a self storage lawyer.

But it’s a great industry. I mean we we all know how lucky we are that that we’re in an industry where the people are great, they work collaboratively, it it’s there’s a mutual support of

You know, the rising tide helps all boats. I mean, we really are an industry that wants to be good together. There’s not backstabbing, there’s not a lot of negative treatment of operators between operators. They’re they’re neighbors. they work together and they it and they they act supportively, which we’re we’re so fortunate to have. I have clients that you know I’ve I’ve now been friends with for forty years. It’s a it’s amazing.

AR (14:57)

Quick break. If you’re not involved with your State Self-Storage Association or the National SSA, you’re missing out.

From legislation and advocacy to education, networking, and industry best practices, these organizations help keep operators informed and ahead of the curve. Get involved. Your business and our industry will be stronger because of it. Now,

Back to no vacancy.

Brian (15:27)

a few years ago, Scott, I asked y I’m I know you know our owner Foy and her late husband, Ken. And a few years ago I asked her, I said, you know, forty plus fifty years ago, when you first started investing your time and energy in this, did you have any idea that it would become, you know, the darling of commercial real estate, the the the sector that it that it has become? so I’ll ask you a similar question. When you when you first started, did you

Did you have any foresight that self storage would get to where it is today and that it could become a a career specialty for you?

Scott Zucker (16:06)

Yeah, absolutely not. I mean in in fact my other partners or at that point I was a young associate and the partners in my office and I said, Look, I I’m gonna really dig into the self storage stuff. I I mean I think it’s a great independent real estate vertical. It’s something that I can, you know, specialize in and really supportive. And they were like, You’re crazy. I mean, self storage back then was, you know, metal buildings put up temporarily to secure land for other use. It was a cash flow, it was a temporary cash flow play. You

Got those first generation properties that you know were just thrown up as as temporary use. It was not until

Honestly, into the late nineties, you know, mid two thousands, I mean almost two decades later, where you where you get this in institutional property, multi-story, you know, beautification type property, metro areas, residential areas. I mean it no, I never thought that. I I thought it was a great exploration into a small segment area that would would keep me busy and maybe offer a unique opportunity.

for my real estate practice, but gosh no, because if I had known, I would have invested in public and Q Smart and extra, you

Chris (17:25)

Ha ha.

Scott Zucker (17:26)

know. But I gotta tell you guys, I mean, seriously, when when we hit 2009, 2010, the Great Recession,

I mean, I thought that was the end of self storage. I I would have never bet that it would have survived it and continued to thrive in terms of the the build up and supply and demand for self-storage and the utilization of self-storage that we see now and continuing to climb. I mean and and let me tell you, when COVID hit, I would have also written off this industry. So up yeah, I’m gonna be George Costanza do the opposite of me whenever I say

Self-storage is dead because it has a resurgence that continues, and I really do believe will continue to grow. If our demographic studies are correct in terms of the percentage of use, there’s a still a long runway of self-storage use that’s coming. And I’ll say this last sort of piece of it is that we are still a hoarder society. My wife and I, right now, we’re doing a renovation of our part of our house and we

We

had to move stuff from one area of the house to the other so they could get to it. I just an accumulation of stuff. So what what did I do? What what did I do? I rented a self-storage unit.

Chris (18:47)

Of course. Of course.

Brian (18:50)

Absolutely.

Andrew (18:50)

Staying in that same vein, Scott, what have you seen over the years that’s been the biggest change in the industry? I mean I have my assumptions, but would love to hear what what you see.

Scott Zucker (19:01)

Well.

there’s there’s a lot to that. I mean you know the the the evolution of properties from this first generation to what I’d even call fourth generation type property now. I mean that the beauty of these buildings, the way that they are developed in areas to fit into the culture and scheme of neighborhoods is amazing to me. I mean the the the the design of a facility is so intriguing to me now. Sort of it can be very fun.

to build a self-storage facility or convert a self-storage facility in an existing area and make it mesh with the neighborhoods and the areas, which I think is just very cool. And maybe that ties in with the technology now because of the systems, the gate access systems, the Bluetooth locking systems, the security, enhanced camera systems, the remote operations, all are just such an amazing evolution of this type of industry.

And I and I have to give the folks that are back at their offices creating these technologies so much credit because they’ve changed the operation of the business. But for me, the answer, I mean, for my little world, I’m not developing self-storage facilities. I’m sitting in my office trying to keep up with the the legal issues, is the change in laws. And if you look at how the laws for the 50 states

for self storage have changed over the last forty years. It’s amazing. I mean we’ve evolved with the world, you know, use of email, use of of online lien sales, use of advertising through the internet, electronic contracting. I mean all of those things that are now permitted by statute and most statutes have followed the changes in the world as well and I

Gotta compliment the National Association and all these state associations that work so hard to keep up with the modernization of their state laws so that operators can meet the demands of their clients legally.

Brian (21:09)

I think I can speak for my friends here when I say that, you know, for the last decade plus that we’ve been listening to you give updates at all of the conferences and honestly, even the states that we have no affiliation with, you know, it doesn’t I I don’t need to hear about Michigan, but I always think it’s just so interesting when you give the the the legal update for the industry and you tell us about some of the pending legislation in other states. It gives us a some foresight to know

what we may need to expect down the road, things that we can kind of proactively prevent for, which is great. But just always interesting to hear some of the wild things that you see and we appreciate how much you share it with the industry and and you know, make it entertaining, right? It’s it’s always fun. It is.

Scott Zucker (21:52)

Well,

yeah, law can be kind of boring, but we we we try to make it interesting. I mean, some of the some of the cases that have come out over the years have have been crazy. but again, it’s good education for folks at the national conferences, at the state meetings to hear these stories, to learn from them and make sure they don’t make the same mistakes. So my philosophy has always been about trying to educate operators to avoid the risk of

having their own problems at their facilities

Chris (22:22)

Yeah, well that’s I mean, that’s where we learn all our best lessons from somebody’s mistake, whether it be ours or someone else’s. so in that same vein, you know, without keep the innocent innocent. strangest like tenant dispute that you’ve heard of that you can share with us, tenant versus self storage company.

Scott Zucker (22:45)

Tenant versus self storage. my gosh. they all go to the misplaced behavior of the tenant, believing that the s that when something goes bad, it’s the operator’s fault, even though it’s the tenant.

that caused the the problem. And I can think of honestly one case where a where a tenant this is a terrible story was cooking was cooking with this

Chris (23:17)

No it isn’t. Come on.

Scott Zucker (23:18)

cooking meth seriously cooking meth caused a fire their unit was burned as well as adjacent units but their unit was burned their property was burned

And they sued the facility. This is pro se world. So b you know, the courts have really opened themselves up to the opportunity for tenants as individuals to bring their own actions. Literally the the world of judge duty and pro se small claim representation is a phenomenon. and I I’m gonna segue on I’ll come back to the story, but the evolution of AI to support

individual legal rights and claims is just beginning to haunt us in the legal industry. And I’ll come back to that. But if you ever see a complaint drafted by AI against a self-storage operator, it’ll be a minimum of a hundred pages.

A complaint. Whereas in the old days it would be a handwritten one page statement of claim. Now it is a an adventure into the odyssey. If a plaintiff brings a individual tenant brings a claim. Anyway, this person was cooking meth, started a fire, burnt their unit, they sued the facility for negligence.

claiming that the facility was somehow liable for not building I can’t make this up, not building a fireproof self-storage facility.

as compared to what was argued to be a fire using fire resistant materials, that it was not fireproof.

AR (25:14)

Man, this story’s great. You have to take a quick break, but we’ll get right back to it. The legal side of self-storage has changed dramatically over the years, from lien laws and auctions to tenant protections and compliance. if you have legal questions or want trusted guidance, reach out to Scott

and the team at Weissman, Zucker, Euster, and Katz. Experienced counsel for an industry that’s always evolving. Now, back to the show.

Scott Zucker (25:46)

So the the somewhere they had claimed that there was a representation that the building was fireproof.

And therefore they rented upon the improper misrepresentation that the building was fireproof, which probably is why they were cooking meth in the in the space, and then caused the fire and sued the facility claiming misrepresentation and negligence for the loss of their goods. I will tell you that case lasted longer than it should have, but ended abruptly one morning when the judge heard the story and said

Not so nicely. Get the hell out of my court. This case is dismissed. but first I thought he was talking to me, but I was glad to know that he wasn’t not

Chris (26:27)

Right, right. Not again.

Scott Zucker (26:29)

yeah, not again.

Brian (26:30)

Yeah.

Chris (26:31)

it was there ever an unexpected court outcome where things went awry, where you did not expect to hear the judge’s decision the way it went, and what happened there?

Scott Zucker (26:45)

Well, in the more formal courts where th it requires full briefing and clarification to the court about the independent roles of the tenant and the landlord, w we’ve seen some odd decisions, but not not

crazy against operators that may have had some liability associated with a a loss or damage type of claim. It is in self-storage small claims that we’ve seen judges who are sympathetic

to the tenants as plaintiffs and notwithstanding the law, say, you know what, you guys might be right, but I’m gonna give these people money anyway because you’re a business and I know you have money or insurance and I’m gonna give them money. And it becomes an issue of the cost benefit analysis of of appealing those decisions as to whether just to pay those judgments. So we’ve seen definitely I I never tell an operator when I go into court

court that that you’re always gonna win even if you have the best rental agreement ever. Might even be the rental agreement I wrote and you cannot guarantee the win because you just may have a judge that says, you know what, I’m just gonna be a nice guy today and enter an order for the tenant, for the for the operator to pay them some money.

Andrew (28:12)

Scott, has there been a court case that you can remember that’s been kind of the biggest lesson for you where you came out of it just

Scott Zucker (28:26)

Yeah.

I wasn’t involved in this case, but I will always frame back to the Gonzalez case out of Texas in from the the early nineties.

Where a self-storage operator, sort of interesting, s sad story, self-storage operator advertised a unit for sale, a lien sale, Mrs. Gonzalez, unit A101, you know, household goods, furniture, whatever, as listed and publicly notified pursuant to the to the law. And a person showed up, said, I’m Mrs. Gonzalez, I saw my units up for sale, I’m gonna pay.

you and I’m gonna take my property out. And the manager said, Okay, Mrs. Gonzalez, you know, you’re in unit 101 as advertised. I’m gonna we’ve o already cut the lock because we had to do the the the inventory for it. So it’s our lock. We’ll take our lock off. Here, get your stuff out. Thanks for the money. You know, five hundred bucks, have your stuff. And that lady came, packed up the stuff and left. the next day, the real Mrs. Gonzalez came in

to collect her property. And the managers were like, well, there was a lady here who said she was Ms. Gonzalez. Well did you ever check her ID? Do you know can you I did you identify who she was? And it’s like, no, she said she was Ms. Gonzalez. We don’t go through any proof process here. And to me that was a big lesson in knowing who your tenants are, especially in the world of self-storage. So I, you know, we went through years where, you know, you’d have the little camera on the desk taking a picture of the tenant.

Or you definitely would take a photocopy of the driver’s license so you’d have a physical description and a picture of your tenant. And it was really important to me as a sort of lessons learned. Know who your tenants are so you can always feel comfortable that you’re dealing with the tenant, especially in a lien situation. Unfortunately with mobile applications and online contracting, we’ve moved away from that. And sometimes it’s more of a hassle to get a copy of the driver’s license. But I s you I really

Urge operators to verify their tenants, especially in a lien collection situation. I mean, this whole issue about self-storage, they don’t live there, they just store their property there. So managers may not know. And look, we may not even have managers at a site anymore with unmanned properties. But the underlying responsibility of knowing who your tenants are, especially when there’s an effort to reclaim property, is still key and a

memory from that case. And that case, the true Mrs. Gonzalez was awarded in the millions

For the loss of her property, which led secondarily to the question: can we limit the value of the property that’s being stored at self-storage? And that triggered the whole movement towards the contractual limitation of value, the declared limitation of value. And then subsequently, over the past 20 years, the statutory approval that a self-storage operator who chooses to limit the value of the property stored can rely on that limitation if a tenant

claims, loss, or damage to their goods. So all these came from some bad stories and lessons learned to move t into contract rights and to statutory protections.

Chris (31:57)

Just a a quick follow up to that. Do you think the limitation of value at five thousand, I think that’s where it usually is, do you think that should be lowered? Or do you think that kinda works against people selling insurance and other other types of things?

Scott Zucker (32:16)

I think it’s a number that that fits within sort of the industry standard of a reasonable value of the property being stored. but there’s always, always the right of the tenant to seek to increase the value based upon their request. So we have situations where operators are at the ready that a tenant sees that says, Well, I believe my stuff has more than five thousand dollars and you’re able by addendum to increase the value as long as the tenant can demonstrate that they have insurance.

or protection for the higher value. They they they always assume the risk of loss that is protected by a third party or or protection program to balance that risk. So the 5,000’s been used, I’ve seen it higher in certain areas. New York City was well known for a 7500. There’s a case out there for 7500 limitation of value. there’s there’s a case in Nebraska for $2,000 of limitation of value. So you know it depends

It depends, but it always gives the this is important, it always gives the tenant the opportunity to request a higher value if they see fit to do so. And it also gives the landlord the opportunity to go, you know what, I don’t feel comfortable with giving you that that increased value, I’d rather you go somewhere else.

Brian (33:32)

All right. So Sc Scott, we have a

Scott Zucker (33:34)

I liked your other

background better, Brian, but that’s a whole different story. You just moved literally while you transported yourself.

Chris (33:38)

He just moved halfway through the podcast.

Brian (33:38)

Me too. Me too. Yeah. My internet connection

my internet connection just wonked out and said, nope, no more fun, no more fun fake studio. so we have a we have a a small segment queued up here that we we’re calling self storage legal mythbusters. And so I’m sure you’ll have more to say about these, but true or false. All right, and we’ll just fire a few scenarios at you.

True or false, Scott, if it’s in my lease, it’s enforceable.

Scott Zucker (34:10)

False.

Do do you want me to explain or just just straight on true or false?

Brian (34:11)

Assigned wave Yeah, yeah, go a no, go ahead.

Go ahead. I I I it says rapid fire, but I know that that

Scott Zucker (34:17)

Well we we can do we can do rapid fire. I’ll we’ll I’ll come back to it, but but the

presumption of i of enforceability, the presumption of prevailing based solely on a contract is not the way that the law works. it’s gonna work a strong percentage of the time, but you said it as a very sort of yes or no, and I can’t say yes. Yeah. Go ahead. Next.

Brian (34:42)

This is perfect because we were just talking about it. True or false? I can always rely on the limitation of value provision.

Scott Zucker (34:48)

False, judges can do what they want to do, but I’d rather you have one than don’t have one.

Brian (34:56)

True or false, a signed waiver protects me from liability.

Scott Zucker (34:59)

Again, I’d rather have one than not have one, but not always.

Chris (35:03)

I told you the only yes we were gonna get out of him was when he hears the tone when somebody

Brian (35:06)

First one. Yeah. No, I know.

Chris (35:07)

has to say God bless you a third time. I it’s the only yes.

Andrew (35:10)

Ha ha ha.

Brian (35:12)

Scott,

true or false? A tenant abandoning a unit means I can immediately take possession.

Scott Zucker (35:20)

If the abandonment’s in writing. A verbal abandonment, so called I don’t I don’t care about my stuff anymore, or what I like to call to the tenant to the landlord go to hell comment is not a abandonment. An abandonment must be in writing.

Chris (35:40)

What if they said go to hell and bring all my shit with ya?

Brian (35:46)

Ha ha ha.

Scott Zucker (35:48)

Well, I know that’s gonna be blanked out by F C C rules, but

Chris (35:51)

Ha ha.

Scott Zucker (35:52)

still no.

Brian (35:54)

Yeah.

Scott Zucker (35:55)

now wait, I want to caveat that. This is interesting. we ’cause we’ve had this come up. If they call the call center, and the call center is a recorded call, as approved by both parties as, you know, this call will be monitored for for you know service best service provided, and they provide that abandonment in a recorded call, I would feel comfortable with that.

Brian (36:18)

Alright, last one. True or false? Electronic leases create more legal risk than paper leases.

Scott Zucker (36:24)

This is so unfair. I’m an old school guy. Do I love the fact that in the old days the tenant stood in front of the manager at the desk and signed a lease with a pen, and we had the original signature and the tenant knew the manager and the manager knew the tenant, and you had your yellow and white and pink copies and everything was beautiful. yeah, I like that.

Are electronic signatures enforceable? Absolutely yes. We have federal and state electronic signature laws. I these days with certain companies you can track the IP address and the the location where the the contract was executed in case there’s any challenge. But I also know that there’s a reality that tenants can and will try to challenge the lease.

when it’s electronic signature and argue that it was not them or was not their signature. So, you know, ha has it made our lives easier? Yes. Has it made our lives harder in certain instances? Yes. Did I love the you know, look in the old days sign and blood here with a with a seal in with with wax over the signature. I

Andrew (37:42)

Yeah.

Scott Zucker (37:43)

that would make my life so much better. But, you know

Gosh, I I didn’t give you a straight answer to any of those. What a lawyer. Gosh, what a lawyer.

Brian (37:50)

That’s okay. You know, I th I

Chris (37:52)

Hm.

Brian (37:53)

I

Chris (37:53)

so we’ve got a question from folks who I guess were too frightened to ask you and Carlos in San Antonio.

I’m gonna let you try to decipher this one, Scott. I don’t know if it’s really English, but what’s his opinion on having an overdue tenant sign a new rental agreement if we take a partial payment?

Scott Zucker (38:14)

Well

A new rental agreement is completely unnecessary. you could always accept a partial payment if you chose to do it. The contracts that I write do not provide for they they provide that you could take a partial payment. I mean, because sometimes people pay it and somehow in the system you accept it, but only full payment would stop a sale. Now an operator always has the right, you know, because tenants do have their stories, and everyone has their own life events. So you may have a tenant

Tell a story that the operator says, Well, I’ll take a partial payment and I won’t sell your stuff. But contractually, you could take a partial payment and still sell the stuff because they have not fulfilled their debt obligation. But let’s say you take a partial payment, don’t sell it, and continue on to the next month, expecting the tenant to cure the balance and pay the next month, which is optimistic. You don’t need a new lease agreement to do that. It’s just a continuing default, and maybe you schedule the

lien

for the next time. But no burden of creating a new lease. It’s the same contractual relationship. It’s just a monetary calculation of what’s owed and not owed at that point.

Chris (39:31)

Yeah, that’s what I thought. go ahead, Andrew.

Andrew (39:33)

I have a sorry, real quick,

Chris. we we had this is kind of a joke one, but we had Jesse Lamb on

Scott Zucker (39:41)

Yeah.

Andrew (39:41)

fairly recently and she has a chicken unit story and it came up I mean she had what was it, hundreds of chickens in a unit that she had just found out about. Had. Yep.

Chris (39:53)

Yeah, this has been rectified. I mean it’s not it’s not present tense. This is

Scott Zucker (39:58)

R are we

talking like a yeah, a hatchery like like they’re making eggs in this unit or or this is where they got rid of the chickens? Like what what what’s going on here?

Andrew (40:05)

I don’t know

they were live chickens. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris (40:07)

I believe they were lit w she heard clucking. It was audible. So yeah, they were alive.

Scott Zucker (40:10)

Looking. Okay.

Chris (40:12)

It wasn’t a butcher shop yet or anyway.

Andrew (40:14)

So she took care of it in the correct way. My question was had the tenant been late on payments and this had to go to auction, how does that how does that work with livestock?

Scott Zucker (40:27)

think that

I think that, you know, these are the and these are great sort of stories because they’re they there are the many one offs of self storage, what’s found in a unit for the purpose of a lean sale. I would not sell a unit full of chickens.

I would contact probably the Department of Agriculture to handle the proper way of turning over live chickens for proper management by the Department of Agriculture. Same way that if I opened up a unit and found a significant amount of pharmaceuticals, you can’t sell the drugs. you would contact the DEA and they would

help you properly dispose of it. You may contact the pharmaceutical company and they could reclaim the property and properly dispose of it. same is true with alcohol, same was true with guns. I mean there’s certain things you’re not gonna sell. You open a meth lab, you’re not gonna start taking over business. I mean there’s a certain amount of things you just aren’t gonna sell. and you’re gonna have to you’re gonna have to red flag those and handle those uniquely and separately.

Chris (41:32)

Well you heard it here first.

you guys want to go right to the lightning round?

Andrew (41:35)

Sure.

Chris (41:35)

Alright. Okay, Scott, here we go. We know you’re a dog lover. Favorite breed of dog?

Scott Zucker (41:44)

Labradoodle.

Chris (41:46)

Nice, very nice. How many do you have?

Scott Zucker (41:49)

we we had to after fourteen and a half years we just lost our little Fenway. Since I’m from Massachusetts,

Chris (41:57)

Hm. Yep.

Scott Zucker (41:58)

we named after Fenway Park. fourteen and a half years had she had a very good run and all that’s left to us now since my wife’s from Houston is our dog Astro.

Chris (42:09)

I’m very sorry for

your loss.

Brian (42:10)

Name though. Great name.

Chris (42:11)

great names. Great names. all right, So you’re from New England. You’ve lived in St. Louis, D C, Atlanta. Your wife is from Houston. What’s your favorite American city to visit?

Scott Zucker (42:22)

Boston.

Chris (42:23)

Yep, understood.

Scott Zucker (42:23)

Great city.

Chris (42:24)

Yeah, yeah, totally agree.

What’s your favorite morning beverage of choice?

Scott Zucker (42:30)

Coffee. A little

Chris (42:32)

Anything in there,

Scott Zucker (42:32)

little cream. Coffee, a little cream. That’s a favorite, that’s a necessary beverage in the morning.

Brian (42:39)

Doesn’t even matter if you like it, just have to have it, yeah.

Chris (42:44)

first concert? Yeah.

Scott Zucker (42:44)

If you were expecting me to say vodka,

Andrew (42:46)

Yeah.

Scott Zucker (42:46)

that would have been a whole

different conversation.

Chris (42:49)

we’re not we’re not interviewing Carlos here

Brian (42:48)

Yeah.

Chris (42:51)

today. We’re interviewing Scott. Come on.

Brian (42:53)

Ha ha ha.

Chris (42:56)

what was your first concert and most recent concert you attended?

Scott Zucker (43:00)

Holy cow. what we’re about to see, our most recent one we’re we’re two weeks away from seeing Paul Simon in Atlanta. I’m an old school music guy. I this is actually a claim to fame. I sang backup with Barry Manilo in 1983. My choir from college.

Yeah, he was doing the one voice tour and I and I I was with my college choir and we sang back up to Barry Manil, who’s still my favorite artist ever. my first concert, however, was Chicago.

Chris (43:35)

Excellent.

Were they known as Chicago back then or the Chicago Transit Authority?

Scott Zucker (43:41)

I think Chicago Transit Authority. Great trivia question. Great. Yes.

Chris (43:45)

Thank you.

what’s most recent concert?

Scott Zucker (43:48)

I wanna say Elmo Live

But but I

Chris (43:54)

Are you

Scott Zucker (43:55)

I might be too embarrassed to to to admit to that one. well th the last concert was the SSA concert with with Hootie. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris (44:04)

yeah, Darius, sure, sure.

Nice. any favorite Paul Simon song that you’re hoping that he sings?

Scott Zucker (44:11)

A bridge over troubled water.

Chris (44:14)

Yeah, I I think you got a pretty good shot at that one, Scott.

Scott Zucker (44:16)

I hope so.

Chris (44:20)

You really dropped that Barry Monolo bomb and I can’t let it go. So College, Washington University St. Louis, this is the

Scott Zucker (44:25)

Washington, yep.

Chris (44:27)

Okay, so you’re in the choir.

Scott Zucker (44:28)

Yeah.

Chris (44:31)

what’s your favorite song to sing in the car by yourself?

Scott Zucker (44:35)

So geez. it it’s gonna be a Manilow song. I mean it’s either a Manala song or a Frank Sinatra song, but the Sinatra songs go back to my dad who used to sing Sinatra songs all day. I mean obviously my my favorite Sinatra is My Way. That comes on the radio, I sing it. you know,

But probably probably Copa Capana

Chris (45:03)

So that’s got I mean,

you guys don’t have a lead in song at the yes at the power hour. Like from now on, you guys should go struttin’ out there.

Scott Zucker (45:09)

I don’t think Carlos and I could probably

decide on a song ’cause he’d he’d probably do some sort of like I I I don’t even know what he would be thinking about in terms of rock and roll back from the from the sixties for you know some Janice Joplin song or something. I don’t know.

Chris (45:25)

Well, maybe yeah, you could alternate.

A little Barry every once in a while and then

Scott Zucker (45:30)

Well I yeah, you

could you could

s you could do my opening to

Brian (45:31)

Some Jerry on the other side.

Scott Zucker (45:33)

to a berry song any time.

Chris (45:37)

This has been really fun. Thank you, Scott, so much for your time.

Will do.

Brian (45:41)

Thanks, Scott. See you soon.

Andrew (45:41)

Thanks, Scott.

Chris (45:42)

Thanks very much, man. Have a great summer. Bye.

Brian (45:51)

Scott Zucker. Always a always a breath of fresh air. Fantastic. He he has probably forgotten more than most people will ever know of self storage.

Chris (46:02)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian (46:05)

Seen it all.

Andrew (46:06)

I was gonna ask him to sing, but I didn’t know how awkward it was gonna get.

Brian (46:10)

Well, I don’t know about the licensing stuff, but I mean if we could play him

Chris (46:12)

Yeah.

Brian (46:13)

out with Copa Cabana on the end of this podcast, that’d be pretty

Chris (46:16)

Pur da

Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee